I'm not trying to push any kind of political agenda, and I'm not much of a crack-pot conspiracy theory junkie; but this documentary contains a lot of information that I feel is really important, and I'm glad I got the opportunity to watch it, so I'm trying to spread it to as many people as possible.
Basically, I think there's worse things you could do with an hour and twenty minutes of your life, than get different perspectives on some of the most traumatic, and globally impactful, events in recorded human history.
Check it out
And grats on your impressive progress, noobs.
Loose Change
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Corrail
The goal wasn't to insight drama, in any way. In fact, maybe this thread should be locked, because I don't really care to elicit responses, either. This was posted purely for the purpose of informing people. Nothing else.
Given that, if you guys still feel it's innappropraite, then remove it, but I don't think you'd really be doing anybody any favors.
[edited] I r spel gud.
Given that, if you guys still feel it's innappropraite, then remove it, but I don't think you'd really be doing anybody any favors.
[edited] I r spel gud.
Last edited by Mezz on Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anything politial in nature has the chance to incite rifts. With that said, the group of people we are striving to gather should be mature enough to keep any debates to a constructive rather than destructive conversation.
If this thread isn't able to maintain that, then yeah - it'll be locked. With that said, I don't really forsee this thread taking off that strongly, anyway.
If this thread isn't able to maintain that, then yeah - it'll be locked. With that said, I don't really forsee this thread taking off that strongly, anyway.
Well you can start with the factual errors made before even putting on your tinfoil hat.
In the introduction to his "Loose Change Second Edition Viewer Guide," Mark Roberts states, "I counted 81 errors of fact (statements like 1+1 = 3). In addition, I counted 345 instances of conjecture not supported by evidence, logical fallacies, uses of images that do not support the conclusions being drawn, and other flubs. And that’s only counting errors of commission. The errors of omission are much more serious."
The "Loose Change Second Edition Viewer Guide" is available as a 146-page, 5 Mb .doc download [2], or as an HTML document.[3] (Note: this guide is to be updated when the "Loose Change" creators resolve their copyright violation issues.). "Sifting Through Loose Change: the 9-11 Research Companion to Loose Change 2nd Edition," is an interactive guide using an illustrated transcript here.
The film states that New York's Empire State Building was hit by a B-52 in 1945. It was actually a B-25 Mitchell, an aircraft less than one-third the size of a B-52 (the B-52 was not in service in 1945). The authors have since acknowledged this error and apologized.
The movie cites a study in which cell phone calls were increasingly difficult, if not impossible, to get through up to and at an altitude of 32,000 ft (9 750 m). According to air traffic controllers in Cleveland, who alerted their counterparts at John P. Murtha Johnstown-Cambria County, Flight 93 headed south and then east and began a steady descent from an altitude of over 20,000 feet (6 100 m) to less than 6,000 feet (1 830 m). [9]
The film states that 5 light posts were knocked over by Flight 77 and suggests that a plane hitting a single light pole would crash, citing the example of a Gulfstream II headed to Houston saying it crashed because it hit a light pole. The film suggests the pole ripped the wing off. In fact the Gulfstream II jet crashed and a TV reporter noted it had clipped a light pole while crashing. Light poles are designed to detach on impact to save lives if cars crash into them. [10]
Another possible flaw within the film is the suggestion of voice manipulation on Flight 93. While it is true that the technology does exist, it would seem that in order for voice manipulation technology to take place as Loose Change suggests, the voice needs to be recorded, not live. Flight 93 conversations were live. Although the above state voice modulation technology was touted as being able to recreate voices in almost "real time." [11]
The film suggests that there is a rumour claiming $167 billion in gold was stored in vaults beneath the World Trade Center, and that only $200 million of that amount was recovered. This amount would have exceeded the entire amount of U.S. gold reserves by approximately $67 billion, and would be about 56% of the world's gold reserves in September, 2001. In fact, all of the approximately $230 million in precious metals stored in the vaults beneath the WTC was recovered. [4]
The film focuses on the wrong type of engine for Flight 77. Bollyn, the reporter of American Free Press that Loose Changes uses, had contacted the factory in Indiana which makes engines for small planes like the Cessna Citation and Global Hawk, rather than the plant in Quebec that overhauls the 757 engines or the factory in Derby, England. Loose Change implies 757's only have Pratt & Whitney engines made of steel and titanium alloy. This is incorrect, because the engines used in Flight 77 are Rolls-Royce engines. [12]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Chan ... accuracies
In the introduction to his "Loose Change Second Edition Viewer Guide," Mark Roberts states, "I counted 81 errors of fact (statements like 1+1 = 3). In addition, I counted 345 instances of conjecture not supported by evidence, logical fallacies, uses of images that do not support the conclusions being drawn, and other flubs. And that’s only counting errors of commission. The errors of omission are much more serious."
The "Loose Change Second Edition Viewer Guide" is available as a 146-page, 5 Mb .doc download [2], or as an HTML document.[3] (Note: this guide is to be updated when the "Loose Change" creators resolve their copyright violation issues.). "Sifting Through Loose Change: the 9-11 Research Companion to Loose Change 2nd Edition," is an interactive guide using an illustrated transcript here.
The film states that New York's Empire State Building was hit by a B-52 in 1945. It was actually a B-25 Mitchell, an aircraft less than one-third the size of a B-52 (the B-52 was not in service in 1945). The authors have since acknowledged this error and apologized.
The movie cites a study in which cell phone calls were increasingly difficult, if not impossible, to get through up to and at an altitude of 32,000 ft (9 750 m). According to air traffic controllers in Cleveland, who alerted their counterparts at John P. Murtha Johnstown-Cambria County, Flight 93 headed south and then east and began a steady descent from an altitude of over 20,000 feet (6 100 m) to less than 6,000 feet (1 830 m). [9]
The film states that 5 light posts were knocked over by Flight 77 and suggests that a plane hitting a single light pole would crash, citing the example of a Gulfstream II headed to Houston saying it crashed because it hit a light pole. The film suggests the pole ripped the wing off. In fact the Gulfstream II jet crashed and a TV reporter noted it had clipped a light pole while crashing. Light poles are designed to detach on impact to save lives if cars crash into them. [10]
Another possible flaw within the film is the suggestion of voice manipulation on Flight 93. While it is true that the technology does exist, it would seem that in order for voice manipulation technology to take place as Loose Change suggests, the voice needs to be recorded, not live. Flight 93 conversations were live. Although the above state voice modulation technology was touted as being able to recreate voices in almost "real time." [11]
The film suggests that there is a rumour claiming $167 billion in gold was stored in vaults beneath the World Trade Center, and that only $200 million of that amount was recovered. This amount would have exceeded the entire amount of U.S. gold reserves by approximately $67 billion, and would be about 56% of the world's gold reserves in September, 2001. In fact, all of the approximately $230 million in precious metals stored in the vaults beneath the WTC was recovered. [4]
The film focuses on the wrong type of engine for Flight 77. Bollyn, the reporter of American Free Press that Loose Changes uses, had contacted the factory in Indiana which makes engines for small planes like the Cessna Citation and Global Hawk, rather than the plant in Quebec that overhauls the 757 engines or the factory in Derby, England. Loose Change implies 757's only have Pratt & Whitney engines made of steel and titanium alloy. This is incorrect, because the engines used in Flight 77 are Rolls-Royce engines. [12]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Chan ... accuracies
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.